 Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
started 5/10/2001; 7:44:46 AM - last post 5/11/2001; 4:00:21 AM
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Ehud Lamm - Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel 
5/10/2001; 7:44:46 AM (reads: 1437, responses: 11)
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| Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel |
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(via comp.lang.scheme)
The panel today is about the design of dynamic languages, and the panelists are Paul Graham, John Maeda, Jonathan Rees and Guy Steele.
Each panelist will address the following five points:
- Guiding philosophy
- Open problems, future directions
- Little known secrets
- Good ideas that have been dropped but whose time has now come
- Pitfalls / gotchas
Looks very promising!
More info can be found here
Posted to general by Ehud Lamm on 5/10/01; 7:47:09 AM
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andrew cooke - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/10/2001; 8:39:10 AM (reads: 1466, responses: 0)
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Kewl. I'll edit this post to say what time the broadcast is in UK time once I post this and see the time stamp.
Curious about Maeda on the panel - I pored over "Maeda on Media" and (1) he was pretty disparaging about the importance of languages and (2) some of his (C) source code looked pretty ropey! Well, a cat can look at a queen....
OK, that was posted at 4.30pm UK time and stamped as 8.30am across there (EDT?). So 1pm EDT is in 4 1/2hours, or 9pm BST. (Can someone in the US confirm that posts here are stamped with EDT - whatever that means. Thanks!)
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Ehud Lamm - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/10/2001; 9:11:02 AM (reads: 1450, responses: 1)
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The way I set the site, it uses the server settings, so I can't really be sure if it is EDT PST or what have you...
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andrew cooke - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/10/2001; 9:41:02 AM (reads: 1510, responses: 0)
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Hmmm. Thanks. Using this it seems that 1pm US/Eastern is 6pm in the UK. Just 20 mins time...
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Ehud Lamm - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/10/2001; 9:56:11 AM (reads: 1424, responses: 1)
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I, alas, am not going to be able to watch. If someone can suumarize and post here I'd be very grateful (it is also bound to bring in traffic!)
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andrew cooke - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/10/2001; 10:06:35 AM (reads: 1503, responses: 0)
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Well, if it was supposed to start 2 minutes ago then it's running late (I get 404 not found, and my firewall isn't complaining). I'm happy to summarise if I see it, but I'm not going to come back and check every 10 mins until I find it... :-(
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John Lawter - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/10/2001; 12:13:25 PM (reads: 1423, responses: 1)
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I just caught the last 30 minutes or so...I'm really hoping that a full transcript will appear. The audio and video were pretty choppy, so I couldn't always make out what people said, or who was speaking. I missed the introductions, so all my attributions here are based on inference.
But, the part I saw was pretty neat. One comment, from Guy Steele, was that a problem with Haskell was the difficulty of inserting print statements for debugging.
There was a brief mention from Paul Graham about the ACM curriculum recommendations, specifically the recommendation to spend less time on programming languages. That has been mentioned at LtU before.
Someone, I think a moderator, mentioned one of my own favorite languages, Max.
Steele and one of the other panelists both agreed that monads were cool.
Paul Graham also advised reading Alan Perlis' epigrams.
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andrew cooke - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/10/2001; 1:03:06 PM (reads: 1511, responses: 0)
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I've been regularly trying since I first posted and never saw anything! (thanks for posting - now I can stop).
He's only half-right about Haskell - it is annoying, but there's an "unsafe IO" operation you can cheat with (I believe; I've never bothered looking for it because I found that by loading the code into Hugs you can try out the functions by hand and find what's wrong in teh tiny things I write).
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John Lawter - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/10/2001; 2:22:39 PM (reads: 1595, responses: 0)
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You may be in luck:
if you check out the Dynamic Languages group's homepage at MIT, they have archives of the previous 2 panel discussions. They are available either as streaming Quicktime or whole Quicktime movies. I expect todays panel to be added, eventually.
here is a link
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andrew cooke - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/11/2001; 3:12:29 AM (reads: 1390, responses: 0)
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Thanks. Comments/highlights from the first (on runtime?). These are a bit random and reflect my own biases...
- Nice to see that neither rapid development nor efficiency, but maintainability and transparency will be important in future code.
- Efficient code will focus on memory access, not CPU cycles.
- One chap (using Dylan -> Java?!) was getting a 24x expansion factor going from (unnamed) language with macros to Java.
- Hardly any women in the audience.
- Capabilities.
- Emphasis on domain languages.
- Small languages grow - don't ignore scalability; piggy-back.
- Questions from the younger membes of the audience emphasised proofs, strong typing; the older panel didn;t have much to say about this.
- Existence proofs for GC in realtime apps.
- Read gtk+ and Dylan source code.
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Ehud Lamm - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/11/2001; 3:38:20 AM (reads: 1399, responses: 1)
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Existence proofs for GC in realtime apps
Are there any?
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andrew cooke - Re: Today! - Dynamic Languages Wizards Panel
5/11/2001; 4:00:21 AM (reads: 1479, responses: 0)
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Three, apparently. The only one I can remember is a robot that dives down to fix underwater oil drilling problems. I suspect it depends on the definition of realtime.
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