Lambda the Ultimate

inactiveTopic Language Neutrality and the Java Platform
started 5/25/2002; 6:32:41 PM - last post 5/28/2002; 8:00:09 AM
Chris Rathman - Language Neutrality and the Java Platform  blueArrow
5/25/2002; 6:32:41 PM (reads: 1949, responses: 3)
Language Neutrality and the Java Platform
(via Programming Languages for the JVM)

Nik Boyd, the creator of Bistro, takes exception with the claim that the Java Platform is incapable of supporting languages other than Java - discussing how the Smalltalk object model was mapped on top of Java.

For an alternate viewpoint, David Simmons discusses why .Net has better facilities for support of SmallScript, a Smalltalk based scripting language. (Of course, would he'd really like is to have something along the lines of the AOS VM to support dynamic scripting languages).
Posted to cross-language-runtimes by Chris Rathman on 5/25/02; 6:37:03 PM

rev - Re: Language Neutrality and the Java Platform  blueArrow
5/25/2002; 7:17:08 PM (reads: 736, responses: 0)
As a language geek, .NET looks appealing. As a Mac user, I catch a lot of flak from other Mac users stuck in some perpetual pre-teen state of mind who think I have some secret Microsoft loving agenda. Same from a lot of Slashdot, a habbit I'm trying to kick. Most Mac users (that is, the ones with whom I interact) also know nothing of programming, other than "Objective-C ownZ 'cuz Cocoa apps r00l!!!1" Perhaps needless background.

Anyway, I often end up in an argument, extolling .NET's possible advantages over Java. I'd prefer the world all used Smalltalk, but at least with .NET, I can use Smalltalk when the rest of the world is set on using C#/Java/VB.

And my question for everyone: what is there in the way of interop with the languages hosted on the Java VM? From what I've read, it's pretty easy to use Java classes and objects from Jython or Bistro. But what about the other way around? From what I've read, it's mostly a pain to use, say, subclass a Python class in Java, or perhaps close to impossible, to subclass a Python class in Bistro.

Java proponents: is that the case? If so, why do people defend the Java VM as a viable .NET substitute for multiple language interop?

Ehud Lamm - Re: Language Neutrality and the Java Platform  blueArrow
5/26/2002; 12:59:55 PM (reads: 680, responses: 0)
I think these arguments would be much more focused if we distinguish between (1) Platform language neutrality (2) Support/ease of cross-language interop and (3) Support/ease of cross-OOP-language interop.

People usually say they are discussing (1) when they are in fact arguing about (3).

Alex Moffat - Re: Language Neutrality and the Java Platform  blueArrow
5/28/2002; 8:00:09 AM (reads: 615, responses: 0)
What should people reasonably expect from multiple language interop? Prior to .NET pushing this as a major feature I've been happy to be able to easily embed a "scripting" language in an application. I don't see that developing a application using multiple languages would, in a commercial setting, provide any benefits. Also, if I have existing, for example, COBOL code, if I recompile for .NET I have to retest and go through all of QA for that code again, in which case just some wrapper would be easier to implement.