Lambda the Ultimate

inactiveTopic #Smalltalk - another .Net language
started 4/29/2003; 6:26:57 AM - last post 5/7/2003; 9:16:18 AM
Isaac Gouy - #Smalltalk - another .Net language  blueArrow
4/29/2003; 6:26:57 AM (reads: 509, responses: 4)
#Smalltalk (via comp.lang.smalltalk)
Implementing blocks...
Blocks that have returns are even more difficult. .NET has no support for non-local returns so #Smalltalk uses exceptions to simulate non-local returns. When a method that has a non-local return is entered, the method generates a number that is used by the exception that is thrown. When a return exception is thrown with that generated number, the method handles that exception and returns the value of the return exception. If the generated number doesn't match, then the return exception is passed to outer handlers. Since exceptions are used to simulate non-local returns, non-local returns are much slower in #Smalltalk than other Smalltalks.

Patrick Logan - Re: #Smalltalk - another .Net language  blueArrow
4/29/2003; 2:26:53 PM (reads: 507, responses: 1)
The apparent poor support for dynamic languages in the dotNET framework is perhaps the most interesting conclusion that can be drawn from this effort.

The S# story is yet more evidence for this conclusion. S# is the much-delayed-and-still-unavailable-even-in-preview-form implementation of Smalltalk that had Microsoft's backing since the early germ of dotNET. (See

These two stories and the Python escapades are damning evidence.

Maybe it's the implementors' choices, or maybe improvements in dotNET are underway. At this point, the sign posts are not pointing in a positive direction.

I suspect Python will continue to grow in popularity until it reaches a point more visible on MSFT's radar and then there will be a concerted effort to get it running in dotNET. Two years after that, say 2006, performance will be reasonable in a production release of dotNET.

Am I too cynical?

Ehud Lamm - Re: #Smalltalk - another .Net language  blueArrow
4/29/2003; 2:41:04 PM (reads: 530, responses: 0)
I say, to optimistic.

Patrick Logan - Re: #Smalltalk - another .Net language  blueArrow
4/29/2003; 3:14:45 PM (reads: 486, responses: 0)
Now I am crying in my beer.


Dan - Re: #Smalltalk - another .Net language  blueArrow
5/7/2003; 9:16:18 AM (reads: 413, responses: 0)
Hey, maybe if you get lucky Python running on Parrot with Parrot providing .NET support will be faster than Python runnign directly on .NET...