A few choice quotes from this interview
So I think the lack of a real computer science today, and the lack of real software engineering today, is partly due to this pop culture.
Yes, that was the big revelation to me when I was in graduate school—when I finally understood that the half page of code on the bottom of page 13 of the Lisp 1.5 manual was Lisp in itself. These were “Maxwell’s Equations of Software!”
I fear — as far as I can tell — that most undergraduate degrees in computer science these days are basically Java vocational training.
Even if you’re designing for professional programmers, in the end your programming language is basically a user-interface design. You will get much better results regardless of what you’re trying to do if you think of it as a user-interface design.